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Ep. 226: Jason Cozens - Financial Frontiers: Exploring Cryptocurrency and Gold
June 26, 2023 | 33 Minutes
Welcome to a brand-new episode of 'Count Me In' where we break down complex financial concepts into simple, understandable terms. In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of cryptocurrency and explore its volatile nature. We're joined by Jason Cozens, the CEO and Founder of Glint, who shares his insights into the current state of the market and explains why cryptocurrencies have become such a significant player in the global economy. Plus, we dive into the golden alternative, exploring how gold has held its purchasing power over thousands of years and how innovative technologies, like Glint, have made gold a feasible medium of exchange. Whether you're a crypto enthusiast or a gold advocate, this episode is packed with valuable insights that will help you navigate the world of alternative currencies.
Connect with Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncozens/
Full Episode Transcript:
Connect with Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncozens/
Full Episode Transcript:
Adam: Hello and welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today we're diving headfirst into the complex and ever-evolving world of cryptocurrencies. We're excited to have Jason Cozens with us. The CEO and founder of Glint, a global fintech platform.
He's an expert in cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, and he'll be sharing his extensive knowledge about the current state of the market. Why cryptocurrencies exist, in the first place, and their inherent risks. He'll also shed light on the appeal of gold, as a stable, risk-off asset, and how it's been modernized for everyday transaction with technologies like Glint. So if you're curious about the state of cryptocurrencies, or the power of gold, as an alternative, this episode is a treasure trove of information. Let's dive in.
Jason, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Really excited to have your expertise around cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, in the market. And maybe we can start off by discussing cryptocurrencies and the state of that market, as it stands right now.
Jason: Yes, sure, well, I mean, before we start looking at exactly the state of the market, now. I think it's also important to understand why the market even exists and, then, just to touch on that for a second. Why do we even have crypto currencies?
My movement into alternative currencies started in 2008 like a lot of people's journeys did for this. Where they realize that banks are not risk-free deposits of funds. When you put your money in the bank, it ceases to be yours. That money is put at risk, and it is lent out, it's a liability of the bank. And that's a problem for people and a problem for businesses that have money, and want to be able to put it into those banks. And, of course, we get all kinds of insurances from the FDIC et cetera.
But, at some point, they're going to change the rules, and they've already passed legislation called bail-in rather than bailout. Which means that when, next time, there's a banking crisis, instead of the government's bailing out the banks. They might say to, actually, "We're going to do bail-in this time."
Which means that if you've got a significant amount of money in the bank, they swap that for shares in the bank. Which you may or may not get back in a few years' time, and that's what they did in Cyprus, they tried it. They've passed the legislation. So it's something we've all got to be cognizant of. And, then, of course, inflation, and very few commentators are talking about one of the biggest drivers for inflation, of course, is money printing. And inflation is now rip-roaring through the economy, it's affecting individuals. It's affecting businesses.
I thought it was bad back in 2008, when governments are trying to keep it at around 2%. Over my lifetime, the dollar has lost more than 85% of its purchasing power, let's just think about that. 85% of its purchasing power, and that was before actually the surge in inflation, I calculated that.
And, so, there's a need or people have been looking for something to hedge against systemic risks. They've been looking for something to hedge against inflation.
And, also, generally speaking, the financial system is getting better at payments and cross-border payments. But, again, they're looking for efficiencies with that, too. So that's why we're in this space.
Innovations around Bitcoin, model a lot on gold and other types of cryptocurrencies now, like Ethereum and even stablecoins, of what created what was a $3 trillion market. And, obviously, what we've seen this year is that $3 trillion market completely collapsed to below a trillion dollars. Which is a huge drop for anybody involved in the cryptocurrency industry.
But, yes, one trillion is still better than the kick in the teeth, and it's a significant industry, still, and I don't see it going away. And there's been a huge amount of money invested in that. But we all know it's been volatile. We've seen that volatility on a weekly, sometimes, daily basis. We've seen huge swings in the value of Bitcoin. For instance, it's gone down from $65,000 down to, I think, we're currently at about $17,000, something like that. And, again, that volatility is huge.
But previous to that, of course, we saw huge gains. I mean, it went from three or $4,000, over a few years up to $65,000. So you can see the attraction and why people got involved in that. Hey, it's this fantastic growth story, and we can handle the volatility in the belief that that growth story is going to continue forever.
But, I think, what happened when Russia invaded Ukraine was really telling. It was the time when we saw that, actually, cryptocurrencies are definitely what I consider a risk on asset. They're a speculative asset that may or may not work, may or may not stand the test of time. There's lots of optimism around it and, certainly, lots of ideas around how it can benefit society. But it's very much still a risky asset, as opposed to say something about other alternatives like gold, which are just considered slightly more boring, but risk-off assets and stuff.
So when the Ukraine was invaded by Russia, then we saw the crypto price plummet, and we saw the gold price go up, for instance. But there's lots of advantages around this. Apart from even the hedging against inflation and the hedging against the systemic risk, and the payments technology, just generally speaking.
The tech, the ability to program these currencies, is what's exciting a lot of people, isn't it? So I definitely think that crypto is here to stay. But we've all got to understand what it is and understand its nature.
Adam: Yes, we do have to understand what it is. Because you don't know it, it doesn't seem as solid as something like holding money in your hands. But then we all know that money doesn't have any backing anymore. And, as you've already mentioned, the inflation and the things with banks can be can be risky, as well. So as organizations are looking at to getting into alternative currencies, are there benefits that they can look at? You've already mentioned a lot of risks, but there have got to be benefits to getting into this.
Jason: Yes, there's huge ones, as I said. I mean, some alternatives do protect against inflation. I mean, you can't get any worse than fiat currency, in my mind, when it comes to inflation. I mean, it's the most terrible product in the world, when it comes to maintaining its purchasing power.
So companies, especially ones who are long term, doing well, where they put that money, in order to maintain your purchasing power.
Whether you're a company or an individual, you're having to make risky investments. Just to make sure you're maintaining your purchasing power of what's on your balance sheet, and that really, for me, is wrong.
So we've all got to look for how alternatives can help us make that fight. And, as I said, transactions and payments, I mean, a lot of people are using cryptocurrencies for payments, and it could be stablecoins as well, for instance. Although we've got to remind ourselves that a stablecoin is still backed by the inferior, in my mind. And current fiat currency is no different just because it's a stablecoin, it's still losing, its purchasing power over time. But at least it has the technology wrapper around it with a stablecoin.
So using cryptocurrencies, whether it's Bitcoin, or a stablecoin, to be able to move value from one part of the world to another, obviously, there's growing use of that. There's trillions of dollars' worth of transactions, now, happening and, sometimes, they're used for in real need. People trying to get money out of difficult regulatory environments.
People are worried in China now about what's going on with their premier, and is it a good business, friendly place anymore or not? And even though they've banned cryptocurrency, over there, mining et cetera. A lot of companies are still trying to use that to move money offshore. But, then, just genuinely trying to move money quickly, and it can be used for that.
So, yes, they're all the benefits that we're all trying to find. I would say, though, that the idea that it's a get rich quick thing, you got to decide what business you're in. Are you in the business of making widgets or providing the service? Or you're in the business of using your hard-earned profits to speculate in markets? I don't really see that as a benefit.
Adam: Yes, that is really tough as you're trying to weight the benefits versus the... So you discuss a lot about gold as a risk-off asset. And if anybody's heard you talk, in the news, you talk a lot about the benefits of having gold. And maybe we can talk a little bit about that, and how can that benefit organizations, or people, or individuals who are looking to have a more not-as-risky asset in their portfolio.
Jason: Sure, well, I mean, gold is valued, globally, by just about everybody on this planet. No matter what culture or region that you're from. No matter what demographic you're in, everybody understands the value of gold. Because gold has been the ultimate store of value for, literally, thousands of years. And it has a proven track record in holding its purchasing power.
I mean, in the time, as I said, the dollar, and the pound, and the euro, et cetera had lost 85% of their purchasing power over my lifetime. Gold's purchasing power went up by over 500%. And, in fact, it still buys you what it did 2000 years ago, never mind just 50. So there is nothing that compares with gold, when it comes to store of value.
But, of course, what about the medium of exchange? And a lot of people say, "Well, gold, it's a great store of value, but it's a useless medium of exchange."
You can't exactly pop down to your local supplier and buy some goods with your gold. You can't chip that off, they're not going to accept coins, et cetera.
Well, actually people need to wake up. There are lots of changes in the space and, certainly, Glint has built technology that allows gold to be used as money. So, for instance, in Glint's case, what we've done is built a kind of payments and trading technology, that effectively allows you to diversify some of your working capital into gold.
So you can have a Euro wallet, a dollar wallet, a pound wallet, and a gold wallet. You can buy as little as a penny, or a million, $10 million worth. We've fractionalized the ownership of that gold, so it's easy to use it as money. And we've even implemented payment instruments that allow people; this is a MasterCard, for instance, linked to a Glint account, that allows me to spend my gold in real time. We're the first company in the world to enable physical gold, real allocated gold, that I own, to be used in payments in real time like that.
But you do have to be careful. A lot of these things; with the cryptocurrencies or with gold, you got to be careful of the nuances, some that can be very important. So when you buy gold, you got to ask yourself, what kind of gold are you buying? Are you buying real gold or are you buying paper gold?
Is the gold that you're buying the physical gold? Is it allocated to you?
Do you legally own it? Or is it unallocated gold, which you own but it can be lent out by the custodian. You don't really want that really, do you? Because when the music stops, it might not be there. Or are you buying futures options, derivatives?
Are you buying ETFs? Where you are buying a share in a fund, which may or may not be backed by gold, and I believe, and what we've built Glint around is that you should own allocated gold, that's gold that you own, and it's no one else's liability. But, yes, we've built this system that allows it to be used as everyday money.
And, so, whether it is diversifying your portfolio, your savings. Whether it's allowing some of your ready money to be stored somewhere safe, protecting you from inflation, et cetera. Or whether it's diversifying some of your working capital, your balance sheet, if you're a company, then there are lots of reasons why you might want to own gold.
Adam: So this isn't something that many people are talking about or saying at all. And as you were saying that it made me think of the old days where gold was the standard. Where everybody wanted to get their hands on it. You had the gold rush in San Francisco, California, in the 1800s, and all of those things. How can you have gold as your backing and still be able to spend with it. Even you have your card and the ways you described, but it seems like you can still tank just like everything else, right?
Jason: Well, it's really important to understand that when things are priced in dollars, or pounds, for instance, in the UK, or euros. When they're priced in that fiat currency, then the confidence in those fiat currencies can, of course, go up and down as well.
So the confidence in the dollar is going up and down every day, but generally down. So it's up and down, up and down, generally down. That's why its purchasing power is decreasing over time.
But gold is just gold, it doesn't change. It's the same thing as it was yesterday, as it was 1000 years ago. It's created when two neutron stars collide in space. So its nature, it cannot be changed, which is why we love it. Because, in my mind, anything that its nature is defined by human being is subject to change or subject to corruption, even if with the best intentions, originally.
So, yes, you've got to understand that, effectively, if you're in gold, but you're working in a foreign currency, then you've got to be aware of those foreign currency fluctuations. But it hasn't tanked in 2000 years. Is it going to tank tomorrow? There's no way it's going to tank tomorrow; I can bet my life on it.
It might drop by 10% or something like that, over time. It's medium monthly variation is half a percent or something like that. It's certainly not as volatile as cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrencies will get there someday, I'm sure over time, and more mass adoption and less affected by whales within the system, et cetera. That's one of the advantages of gold is that it's owned by everybody.
When I say everybody, it's owned by lots of people globally. And from the poorest person on the street, in some parts of the world, to central banks, remember still back their currency, they back their power by holding gold. A lot of them do the U.S. still does, and Russia was building up gold over the last 10 years, so has China.
I don't think there's any coincidence about that. Their actions today are, I'm sure, planned and carefully thought through over the previous decades. And gold-backed money, until relatively recently, I mean, I don't consider myself that old. But 1970 was when I was born and the dollar was backed by gold, then, and it was backed by gold until 1971.
And I know some people might have, as I get older, I start to realize, I start to understand, now, how whole generations of people can be born into scenarios. Where they have no understanding or appreciation of what went just before them and, actually, that can lead to all kinds of challenges. For instance, how many of the audience, who are listening to this podcast, have had a mortgage on a property when interest rates were over 5%? Very few, I'm guessing.
And, yet, in my parents' generation, there were interest rates of up to 12%. And lots of people were used to paying mortgages with interest rates at around 5%. But gold-backed money, until 1971, and we didn't come off the gold standard because gold wasn't very good. We came off the gold standard because the very fact that gold was awesome.
Nixon loved gold, but the problem was that they couldn't afford the Vietnam War. They couldn't afford the promises to the electorate, so they were printing money. And De Gaulle, the French president, said, "I think you're printing more dollars than you have gold, guys. So I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
I'm going to use my Navy to come into New York, and swap my pallet loads of dollars for gold." And that's what was happening in 1970, 1971, the amount of gold in Fort Knox was going down. And Nixon was like, "We can't lose all our gold."
So they went away to think about it and decided, "Let's just come off the gold standard." And they did that, temporarily, it was supposed to be a temporary window. And, of course, Nixon ended up getting thrown out, and we, live, today with the repercussions, consequences, of that. Which is that we're off the gold standard. Governments, central banks, all over the world, print as much money as they want to their heart's content. And, actually, it ends up being the greatest tax that no one talks about.
Because if you're a saver, if you're a responsible saver, and you're putting your money away. And you don't want to put it at risk in the stock market because a company can go to zero. A fiat currency can go to zero, and they do. So the dollar and the pound have already lost 85% the value, so they're nearly at zero, anyway. Gold never does, that's why people are already attracted to it.
But what seems to have just gotten lost in translation or missed is that everyone's rushed towards creating alternatives based on technology, and dismissing gold. Without realizing that, actually, companies like Glint, and we're not the only ones, there are stablecoins, and stuff like that, based on these types of things, but using technology to make the ultimate form of money, the future. Back to the future of money I'd, maybe, call it.
But, certainly, giving everybody their own personal gold standard. And our vision, certainly, is a world where everyone has an equal opportunity to prosper. And we think that bottom up returns to [Inaudible 00:17:38] money is the only way we're going to get to any kind of fair society, and governments are not going to do it.
So private individuals, directors, and companies, we need to take control of our money ourselves. And, I think, this whole explosion in innovation and stuff is just fantastic for people and businesses. You can always rely on people's innovation to come to the rescue. But there are challenges with all these things, as you've intuited. There are problems, aren't there? With implementing these new things into businesses and that people have got to be very careful about what they're doing. They want to think carefully before they jump, I think.
Adam: They do have to think carefully before they jump. And that's a perfect segue thinking about your accounting and finance team. Who would need to take into consideration all of these elements, as they're putting these on the balance sheet. What are some considerations that they do need to take into consideration as they're implementing this? And are there best practices they should think about?
Jason: Yes, sure, well, I mean, you've got to be thinking about four things. You got to be thinking about the volatility, this is a risk on. If you're cryptocurrencies it's a risk on assets, if it's gold, it has a level of volatility as well. So you got to be thinking about that. You got to be thinking about anti money laundering issues, especially, around cryptocurrencies.
Is there a possibility that the cryptocurrency you're bringing in to your business or to your life has been the proceeds of crime?
You've got to look at the regulatory issues around tax. Around the nature of money itself. Is it cryptocurrency or gold money? Or is it property? Or is it security? And we've got to look at the systems and processes we've got in the business. Because a lot of those are designed for the incumbent system, not for the new one.
So, yes, we've got to look, very carefully, at those in a bit more detail. So regulatory wise, well, you can lobby governments to make changes and those businesses that might be listening that have some influence there. You got to be talking to government officials about that. Obviously, there's been a lot of change, or concerns about what changes there are in the elections in the U.S. and it's quite obvious that Republicans seem to be a little bit more cryptocurrency friendly, compared to the Democrats.
But either way, both parties are going to see some clampdowns on the cryptocurrency industry. My appeal to governments and regulators out there is stop being vague. Businesses and people need regulatory clarity on this. So there are chances that, I think, the problem in the U.S., at the moment, and any government where they don't have a leading majority, is that any crypto-related bills might not get passed. Unless there's bipartisan belief in what needs to get done, and that that's an issue.
I don't want to get political about things. But, generally speaking, two parties, when they're so far away from each other, and they can't find a good center, then, actually, nothing gets done. But we do need that clarity. So I appeal to regulators and governments around the world to try and do that. Because, I mean, the SEC chair, Gary Gensler, has said that he believes the majority of cryptocurrencies are securities, and in the UK they see it as property, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners think it's money. So we've got to get to the bottom of that.
But when you're diversifying your balance sheet to include alternative assets, you've got the challenges around your reporting currency, and what effect that might have on your EBTDA. Losses may occur, even if only temporarily. And, of course, when you're doing your audits and your accounts that can lead to quite a misleading view or misleading information for readers of those financial statements.
I mean, you can have a situation where your assets look great, because cryptocurrencies just shot up. Or it could be that the cryptocurrencies just bottomed the day before you had to submit your accounts. So, what is happening? How do you deal with that? Capital gains tax. I see gold as money, I don't see it as an investment, it's just a store of value. And if you said to me, I'm in London, at the moment, so if you said, "Jason, come over to the States, and let's have a week here, let's discuss cryptocurrencies, and alternative currencies, and gold in more detail."
I might buy £10,000 worth of dollars, and I take those dollars, maybe I've got 12 or $13,000. And I come to the U.S. And you get there, and you say to me, "Hey, Jason, don't worry about spending anything, I'm feeling great. I just won the lottery, so I'm paying for everything."
And then I come back with my money after a week and the pound is, we've had another Brexit problem, or another prime minister has been elected and another one has resigned, and the pound has plummeted. Suddenly, I now have 17,000, when I exchange my dollars back for pounds, I've got more pounds than I left with there's a capital gain there.
But do I have to report that to the tax authorities et cetera? There's lots of exemptions around using money in relation to tax. But there isn't with cryptocurrencies or with gold. Because the traditional view of gold is it's a bar of gold, it's an investment, traditionally. The views on cryptocurrencies are varied.
So, as we say, some see them as different things. So you got to be careful about that. And you've got to get your advice, in your own region, about how we should be treated. And probably taking the safest approach to say, "Well, we'll assume there has to be a tax on this, a capital gains tax or whatever, we're going to put that money aside." Even if you don't submit it, every region is has got to deal with their own situations there, but you must be cognizant of it. and how do you track all the fees? How do you track the fluctuations in the currency's value?
I mean, with cryptocurrencies there can be quite big gas fees, for instance, around some things, and the fees can be different depending on what's going on the network or the block chain is busy at the time, suddenly, those fees are going up. You've got a bit of a difficult situation, where you're trying to manage all of that, manage that volatility, manage the counterparty risk in terms of AML.
So there are a couple of different approaches to this, though, you can take a hands-off approach where you go, "Look, we're going to take any crypto that comes to us as a business. We're not going to actively go out there and buy crypto but what we might do is accept cryptocurrency, in lieu of payments of services or products. You might do that with gold, or you might do that with cryptocurrency. And what you could say, you could choose a vendor and exchange that for you automatically. So you might not even touch the cryptocurrency.
You say, "Look, I still want the currency of my residence, I still want my default currency for my accounts to come into our system. You can pay me in cryptocurrency or gold. But my vendor or exchange that I'm working with will convert that to dollars that comes in and that's obviously the easiest way to deal with this. And, so, nothing really changes for you in the back end.
But if you do want to take that hands-on approach. You got to think about three things, you've got to think about, well, what treasury systems and processes do I have to put in place?
What are my banking relationships going to say about this?
Are they're going to be happy that we're taking on cryptocurrencies about that? And they might not allow me to exchange it and bank it later. And some banks, increasingly, they're more comfortable with things; alternatives, like gold and cryptocurrencies.
But you've got to ask your question, what is my bank's attitude towards this? And then you've got to choose who your vendors are.
Are you're going to be working with vendors like exchanges or are you going to be working with your own wallets? There's challenges with both. If you've got your own wallets, how are you managing access to those wallets and security around it? How are you dealing with...
If you're working with an exchange, then, I mean, we've all seen some of the problems, in the last 48 hours, with FTX. I mean, I think, it was Fortune Magazine. I was just in the club, the other day, and I saw a Fortune Magazine and there's the founder of FTX, on the cover, about he's going to be the future, and here we are with the company near collapse.
And, so, who do you choose to work with, if you're working with a vendor? So there's plenty to think about. But it's important that any business remains curious, remains innovative, creative. And you got to start thinking about this and doing this, because you'll find the right solution for your business if you take it seriously. And that can be the difference between success and failure.
I mean, with inflation running in some countries that's anywhere between 10 and 80%, at the moment. This is the difference, and we live in a world that's very competitive. And, so, you've got to think out the box. I think, those people who embrace technology, generally speaking, get rewarded in the long term.
Adam: I agree with you; I think they will. And, like you said, you'd have to know your local regulations like in the U.S. the FASB voted on October 12 that cryptocurrencies are no longer intangible assets, their guidance has changed. So you have to know that, and you have to know how to account for that. And I know IFAC and all those other places are trying to consider how you should view these or account for these. And, so, you have to know what your local regulatory body is doing.
Jason: Yes, and, as you say, it's changing all the time. So Hong Kong, for instance, had a very strict attitude towards cryptocurrencies. But then what happened is they saw money flowing to Singapore, which had taken a much more relaxed view on cryptocurrencies. And now the tables are turning, Hong Kong has just announced that it wants to be crypto-friendly.
Singapore is starting to tighten up its regulations around that, and even saying that they might restrict it because of the volatility. And in April, here in the UK, the UK Government said that we were going to announce rules to say that stablecoins can be recognized as a valid form of payment. I'm not quite sure what that means. They, obviously, want Britain to become, now, a global hub for crypto asset technology and investment.
But what does that really mean? You're going to accept our taxes in cryptocurrency? And, actually, that's something to mention, being able to pay your employee-related taxes, or your value added taxes, your product taxes.
I think early on, I sold a company to a business. One of the very first electronic barter-based trade currencies, and I was involved in that business for a few months, after the exit. And they had a very simple approach, "Yes, I can get paid in this alternative currency." But, at the end of the day, the government still wants to be paid in their currency.
So you just have to, again, account for that.
Adam: Yes, so as we think about the future, look into our crystal ball. Do you think we're heading toward what the science fiction movies always say, like "I'll pay you 20,000 credits, here you go?" Or are we not going that direction? Do you think we'll get to that point, where everything will be virtual or do you think we'll still have some hard currency that we'll be working with?
Jason: Well, I think, the term is we always overestimate what can happen in the next five years and underestimate what could happen in the next 20. And, I mean, I was involved in virtual reality, the first time it was called back in the '90s. And I see what's going on with Meta and Facebook and there's no way the virtual reality is going to deliver the kind of returns, and the kind of innovation that is needed. That is reflected with the enthusiasm that people like Facebook have for it and stuff. We're just a million miles away from where we need to be.
And, so, it's the same with cryptocurrencies. For instance, they need to mature, they need to get more mass adoption before their volatility will start to come down. They can be considered valuable stores of value. They're already a good medium of exchange-ish. Transactions are still very high and costly, in most of these cryptocurrencies. So there's still a lot of immaturity there, and I love the enthusiasm for it. And I do think I'm singing from the same hymn sheet, in terms of gold, for instance.
But, I think, long-term there will be lots of progress made and some progress that, maybe, some of the listeners are even thinking about right now. I mean, what's the effect of quantum computing on finance? And you might say, "Well, what's that got to do with finance?"
Well, it's got a lot to do with security. The idea that you could have two elements quantumly entangled with each other, and then separated by great distances. I mean, I don't profess to know, I know a tiny amount is very dangerous. But the idea that you could have new security systems based on quantum computing, might mean, for instance, that you can actually tell whether or not this is a real user accessing the system, when the system is on earth and the person is on Mars.
So, actually, there's no reason why, for instance, currencies could be intergalactic. And whether that is a fiat system. Whether it is a cryptocurrency system. Whether it is a gold-based system. I don't think matters; I think that the future leads. There's a huge amount of innovation and excitement, for me, as we move forward. I would say, though, fiat currencies all come to an end. They all. There is not one fiat currency that stood the test of time ever. And we can see that they are becoming, right in front of our eyes, worthless.
And, so, I think that there will be an end to the U.S. dollar, the pound, and the euro. But when it will be? They'll probably last a lot longer than we think they ever will. Gold will still be here and, still, I think, a store of value. And with the technologies behind it, it's a tantalizing opportunity to be a fantastic global interstellar currency, based on the kind of technology we could bring forward.
But I do think that block chain and distributed ledger's, in general, can offer a huge amount of increased transparency and trustworthiness, in the long run, to make accountants and finance teams lives much easier.
Adam: I agree. And, Jason, I just want to thank you, again, for coming on the podcast. It's been great having this conversation. I know we could keep talking for a long time, but thanks for sharing your expertise with us, today.
Jason: Adam, it's been a pleasure, thank you.
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